Who would've thought
this “interview with demoscener” would have 4th guest?! (I certainly
didn't, and this fact makes me super happy!) Japan, Hungary, Finland… as you
can see from the guest list, demoscene is fairly international culture…
For this time, I
interviewed Zavie from Ctrl-Alt-Test,
who knows both European and Japanese demoscene. (He is one of the organizers of
Tokyo Demo Fest.) In this interview, he reveals his “highly effective” new demomaking
technique, not-so-usual working space and what drives demoscene. (He also
shares some of his beautiful photo!)
Enjoy! :)
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First of all, could
you please introduce yourself briefly?
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| photo by Hélène Duong |
Hello, my name is
Julien Guertault, while in the demoscene people usually know me as Zavie.
By day I work as a
programmer and have been doing so for almost ten years now. At this moment I am
in the game industry, but this was not always the case. Naturally in the group Ctrl-Alt-Test, which was created
four years ago by LLB and I, my role has to do with programming too, although I
also try to wear the designer's hat.
When and how did you
find demoscene? And what process did you go through before releasing your first
demo?
I think my first
contact with the demoscene was around 1995, when I bought a programming
magazine that happened to feature an article about the Euskal Party (computer
party held in Spain). I had absolutely no idea what this was about and I
didn't quite understand, but I remember running those programs that seemed to
serve no other purpose than to show cool stuff on the screen.
It's only years later,
when I was a student around 2002, that I was exposed to the demoscene culture.
With a couple of other students we would watch demos, be in awe before “fr-08” , “Mojo Dream” or Conspiracy's first demo... “BB” was also a popular demo among Linux users.
But it's in 2009 that
I joined the demoscene, when LLB asked me if I'd be interested in forming a
group and attending Breakpoint (demoparty held in Germany) a month later. So I really am a
newcomer.
I believe your other
members reside in Europe. How do you work with them? Is there any specific
workflow that you follow?
Back when we were
living in the same city, we would gather during weekends to work on our demo,
while chatting and having lunch and dinner together. Those are very good
memories, but now that we all live in different countries, this time is long
gone.
So now it's all
distant work, which has its advantages. For example, working together in a same
place is very motivating. But surprisingly, working from different time zones
is also very motivating: you get up in the morning and see how the demo has
evolved while you were asleep.
We're experimenting
various things but in the end we don't really have a specific way of working.
That’s interesting.
Then let me pick one for example: “F - Felix's Workshop” I like this demo, because it features many
wooden toys and it got soft and warm feel. How did you work on this demo? Did
it take much time to create?
Originally, “F” was an
idea suggested by LLB:
he wanted to make some kind of Animusic like demo. As we were working on the concept we thought
merely doing a copy of something created twenty years ago and that looked
better already at the time, would be uninteresting. It had to bring something
different. So this idea of impersonating the instruments, the story around them
and, ultimately, the story of their creator, took shape.
Writing it wasn't
particularly hard, but proved to be very time consuming because our tools are
still very rudimentary. So it unfolded over about nine months, although there
were periods of less activity than others.
Hearing that "F –
Felix's workshop" was selected to be shown at the Computer Animation Festival
was completely unexpected, and a really good news. I'm quite proud to see our
work listed on the SIGGRAPH
website.
On a personal level,
regardless of what theme or size of demo you’re working on, do you set your own
rule or goal? Is there anything you really care about when you make demo?
Not really. We know
when it's done, simply because it's passed the point we'd be ashamed of having
it on big screen, and any additional amount of work would be beyond what we're
ready to invest.
That's one of the
strengths of demomaking compared to other kinds of personal projects: the
competitions and demoparties give you a target, a goal. At some point you have
to release, then you can move on to the next demo.
(Unfortunately I won’t
be able to understand.. but here’s one for readers who makes
demo…) What program do you use to make demo? Do you create your own
tool?
Our tool-chain is an
ever evolving one. Our bread and butter is Visual Studio and a couple of tools
from other demoscene people (kb's soft synth V2, Gopher's 4klang, IQ's size coding
framework, ryg's kkrunchy or Mentor and Blueberry's Crinkler are classics). We
don't use tools like Werkkzeug
(demotool provided by Farbrausch) though, we have a more ad hoc approach.
Recently we started
writing a tiny tool to make it easier and faster to fine tune some elements. If
it proves to work well for us, it might grow into something bigger. I think the
key is really to reduce the iteration time: the time it takes between the
moment you decide to change something and the moment you see the result.
For our last demo,
which is still under development, I wanted to experiment something new. I
noticed that even when we think we have a very precise idea of how a demo is
going to unfold, after actually writing it some problems appear: holes in the
storyline, parts that are boring, scenes that just don't work...
Writing a demo takes a
lot of time, at least for us. Noticing weaknesses in the storyline only after
the demo is written is a problem.
So this time I tried
to start with writing a storyboard first, just like the ones you see in
filmmaking. The idea of having to draw every single scene felt daunting, but it
actually proved to be much less work than expected. It was fun even. Just crude
sketches of how the scenes would look on screen.
After it was done, I
put them together with the music in a preview video. Even though it was very
rough, it immediately highlighted the problems of our storyline: scenes that
were too long or with too little happening, camera angles that were wrong,
scenes that needed to be reordered...
This experiment was a
success: with only little work we already knew what was wrong in our storyline
and could correct it. So I plan to use this again in the future.
Can’t wait to see that,
and be sure to reveal some from your storyboard! :) Ok, um… Could you show us
where your demo is born?
What the…? Is this
your workspace??
To be honest a
significant part of my work on demo is actually done in the train while
commuting. I almost always have a notepad with me, which I use to sort my
thoughts out and sketch scenes. Most of the story of “D” (D - Four), and many sketches of “F” were born in the
train. Sometimes I take my laptop too and code if I am motivated enough. It
forces me to do small chunks of work.
Mobile office :) But
it’s kind of hard to believe that demo was born in the commuter’s train…
Well, a part of it. :) For example these
sketches were probably drawn in the train (although I don't remember for sure).
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zavie has shares some
drawings and “work in progress” photo on this Pouet thread.
|
By the way, that train photo looks great.
Aside from demo making, you take beautiful photos on your spare time. Seems
like your creative “output” is quite visual, but what about “input”? I mean,
how do you nourish your creativity?
It is just as visual.
Community websites like Flickr and Vimeo, for example, are an endless source of
inspiration. Many very talented people, amateurs and professionals, put their
work there for anyone to see. It's a very good way to learn, and over the years
I've become more demanding in terms of aesthetics and artistic maturity.
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| "Instants of life" by zavie |
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| "Testing the Himeji Castle" by zavie |
(To see more of his
photos, check out his Flickr page.)
Can I ask some
‘personal’ questions? (Obviously this is already personal, but..) You’re
originally from France but now you reside in Tokyo. What brings you here?
Simply the opportunity.
It was the right time and I could, so I did. I can't tell you where I'll be
tomorrow, but for now this is where I am.
And how’s Japan
treating you? When do you realize “gosh! I’m in Japan now”? (good thing, bad
thing, any remarks are fine! I don’t blame you :)
It doesn't happen much
anymore, but I remember sitting in the morning train among the so-called
“salary men” and “office ladies”, looking around me and thinking to myself:
"Boy, I'm on my way to work, IN TOKYO!".
I suppose living in
any country has its pros and cons. In the end, what mostly matters, apart from
the obvious basic needs, are the small things, that we often take for granted
without realizing they're part of what makes it pleasing living there. They define
how it feels to live there.
And you’re one of the organizers of Tokyo DemoFest. I read your blog post about Tokyo Demo Fest 2013, and it was very
interesting to know your take around Japanese demoparty because you know the
European demo culture very well. (Didn’t you say you witnessed “Elavated” on
live??) What do you think about demo culture in Japan in general?
Yes, Elevated was
released at Breakpoint 2009, which happens to be the first demoparty I
attended. Somewhere between 500 and 1000 people were in that hall, watching the
PC 4k competition, which was really good already, and then, out of nowhere,
there was... that.
From the first second,
everybody was completely blown away. It was a massive slap in the face for the
whole audience. Every once in a while something that wasn't thought to be
possible is shown, and people are excited. But this was a whole new level, this
wasn't even supposed to happen, it was so ridiculously better than everything
else, it was unreal, it was amazing.
This feeling fuels the
demoscene in my opinion. It is part of why groups take part in competitions, it
is part of why people attend demoparties, it is part of why people organize
demoparties: to experience that feeling again.
And I believe this is
also what fuels the Japanese demoscene. A few enthusiasts took the leap and
attended European demoparties, even though the distance, even though the
cultural gap, and they experienced it. Now they want to share with people here
that feeling of being part of a crowd, of hearing their reaction when it is
your work that is being shown for the very first time on big screen.
Starting a new
demoparty is a daunting task: everything has to be done. Starting the first
demoparty of the country even more so. Yet they did: they found a first
location, some sponsors, and spread the word. Fast forward three years later,
the last edition of Tokyo Demo Fest was a massive success, and the fourth
edition is already on the way. This is something to be proud of in my opinion.
TDF Twitter feed says that next one will be on
March 21, 22, 23 in 2014 at the same place as this year. Is this decided?
Yes, absolutely. Friday is a public
holiday, so we though it'd be more convenient for Japanese visitors. Also
notice next year it's going to be a three days event!
If you can recommend a
few spot in Tokyo or Japan to fellow sceners, where would that be?
Tokyo Demo Fest of
course!
:D …And?
Other than that, Tokyo
has a thousand faces, it is a mix of complete chaos and rules followed
strictly, a combination of classic and modern architecture, as well as, all too
often, just boring functional one. :)
Financial districts
like Shinjuku West and Shinagawa or crazy neon ones like Shibuya are some must
see of course. But I also find the gloomy back streets of Kanda to be very
inspiring, especially late at night.
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| "Dark street in Kanda" by zavie |
Wow, it IS dark.. :) and it’s quite funny to have
this much dark place just a few blocks away from Akihabara (Electric Town)…
Ok, time to shoot this classic question. your favorite demo, memorable demo, demo that changed
your life… anything… tell us a demo which is special to you.
I don't think I have
one favorite demo. There are a couple of demos that I love and have watched
many times, like “1995” (video) or
“You Should” (video) for example, which I both dig for their message.
People wise, I like Preacher's simple and
candid style, and I am a great fan of the work of Pixtur. He's very talented
and all the demos he's worked on stand out in terms of direction a visual
coherence.
Big question. What is demoscene/demo to you? Why do you
make demo?
A part of it is a way
of expression, a way of combining orthogonal passions for visual art and
computer technique and making sense out of them.
Another part is
probably the pursuit of a sense of achievement. You might craft your art, or
whatever you're doing, on your own and maybe get good at it. But without
anybody else seeing it, it's of little use. Releasing a demo means you're
exposing your work to eye of others and accept that they may not like it.
Last but not least,
it's an excellent way to evacuate the frustration one might experience at work.
Commercial interests inherently driving work at the office are often
incompatible with artistic freedom, and interfere with the technical side too.
When making a demo, one has complete freedom, which interestingly brings new
problems. :)
What type of demo do you want to make in the future? Is
there any dream or goal that you want to achieve in the scene?
I don't think there is
such a thing as a dream or goal for me. Demomaking is about art, pursuing
something rather personal, honing your skills and exploring your mean of
expression. If there were a goal, it would be depressing: what would you do
after you reached it? I have a couple of concepts I'd like to try in the
future, and surely LLB does too. But by the time we'll be working on it, we'll
have new ideas we'll want to explore too.
Then you don’t have
to worry about running out of ideas… which is great for us viewers too. Keep it
coming :) And finally, your message for demosceners and demo fans out there
please.
It's ok to go to a demoparty
without a prod. Even if it's better to have one. But after attending a
demoparty, chances are you will want to make something. A demoparty is a truly
inspirational moment, in its most raw form: most people I've seen attending
their first demoparty wanted to create something right away, and would swear
they'd come back with a prod next time.
In that regards, I
think demoparties are doing better than many art exhibitions. When was the last
time you went to a museum and felt inspired to craft something as a result?
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Thank you very much
Zavie, for taking this interview and allow me to use some of your wonderful
photos!!
If you want to want to
see more demos from Ctrl-Alt-Test, check out their
group site and Pouet demo-graphy. And on his blog, zavie is sharing some
resources around demo, 3D rendering and photography. (Plus, on his French blog,
you can read what he experiences in Tokyo life… and more.)
Thank you very much
for reading! :)
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#1: Interview with Demoscener: q from nonoil/gorakubu is here.
#2: Interview with Demoscener: Gargaj from Conspiracy, Ümlaüt
Design is here.
#3: Interview with Demoscener: Preacher from Brainstorm,
Traction is here.
- For some of my posts related to “demo and
“demoscene” culture is here.
