→日本語でよむ
According to the Japanese Wikipedia, even when Europe was in “golden age” of demoscene (where Future Crew
was taking the European computer world by storm), demoscene culture didn’t
exist in Japan.
About 20 years after that, we often hear the phrase “demoscene is dead” making reference to the decrease in numbers and participants of demoparty. But funnily enough, as if it
goes against the stream, a brand new and very first demoparty was just born in Japan
:D (so, "demoscene is born" here...)
This time, I interviewed
kioku who’s active demoscener and main organizer of this demoparty
(Tokyo Demo Fest).
Enjoy!
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First of all, could you introduce yourself
briefly?
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(Photo provided by kioku)
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My name is Kentaro Oku, and I’m a leader of System K. I do coding and making graphics in the group. Once in a long while I make music as well, but I don’t provide one for the group because I feel that I’m still short on experience in that field.
How did you find out
about the demoscene? I’m
very curious because I’m
not sure if there was a demoscene in Japan in the past…
I discovered demoscene through the book called “Megademo wo Tsukuro (Let’s make Megademo)”. It’s the one and only demoscene related book in Japan and I found it in the bookshop when I was a highschool student.
I discovered demoscene through the book called “Megademo wo Tsukuro (Let’s make Megademo)”. It’s the one and only demoscene related book in Japan and I found it in the bookshop when I was a highschool student.
And after you found
that book, you immediately tried to create your own demo? What was it like to
create and release your first demo?
At the time I found that book, I was interested in making 3D program. So I bought the book and started programming by using its sample program. But there were many things that I didn’t understand, like math, and it’s not until I became a university student that I could make something proper.
At the time I found that book, I was interested in making 3D program. So I bought the book and started programming by using its sample program. But there were many things that I didn’t understand, like math, and it’s not until I became a university student that I could make something proper.
The very first demo that I’ve made was to
attract new members for our computer club at university. I don’t remember
exactly but I think I made it in 3 weeks or so. We were in spring vacation, so
I locked myself in the room to complete it. The music was provided by sincl,
who I still work with.
Looking back, it wasn’t that great demo, but I
think there were some kind of power or spirit in it and I was happy about that.
Moreover, we could successfully attract many freshmen with that. :)
Sounds like a perfect way to use the spring vacation :)
Do you make any plans before making demo?
With System K, we start everything based on
music. We do think about overall structures and such in the beginning, but we
change the details later and we sometimes change majors parts later, too.
I don’t think there are many demosceners in Japan, but
how do you collaborate with other people or groups?
I’ve made quite a lot of demos by now but I
didn’t have much chance to collaborate with others. In the past, I worked with
GOT from Eldorado, q from nonoil and TS from RTX1911 for my latest demo.
“break over - TokyoDemo Fest 2014 Invitation –" (2004) by SystemK & RTX1911
If I only ask for music, our collaboration is
done when I got the music. But when we work together on programs or graphics,
we first decide which team’s system we should use, and then start making demo
by following chosen team’s rule.
I could barely make my own schedule, but
somehow I’m almost always assigned to take care of the overall schedule of
collaboration work. :) (And somehow I always manage it better..:D)
Is there anything you
really care about when you make demo? Do you set your own rule or goal?
I will share you my 3 secret tips for
demo-making.
1. Sync with the rhythm of music
It’s important that your demo goes well with
its music’s BPM. Which means, you have to smoothly sync graphics with bass
drum, change in melodies or effects.
2. Think about your audience
We create demos to show our audience. Of course, the thing you try to show on the
screen should have a certain quality, but more importantly, you have to have
something which will make your audience go “Wow!”. So the key is to put some “unpredictable
scene” in it.
3. Create for big screen
You need wider FOV. Remember, your demo will
be shown on the big screen at the demo parties, not on your computer screen. Technically it’s just a matter of difference
in screen size, but you have to know that the impact of your demo cannot be
increased just by enlarging it and showing it on the big screen.
There’s this thing called FOV (Field Of View)
setting in CG field, and I think it’s better to give larger value for this.
From my experience, I found 120 to 130 degrees would be enough. You need to set
it in this way because the big screen covers almost all our field of vision
while the computer screen only covers a part of it. So if you can set it
accordingly to cover the angle, that would be ideal. When you look at the work
from veteran demogroups, you’ll see they set this superbly.
You even consider about angles? Wow… Ok, the next is “show
us your workspace” corner :) Could you show us where your demos are born?
I work
on the demo at my desk, which you can see in the photo.
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(Photo provided by kioku)
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Oh look, the odd-shaped
keyboard! :) Do you
do anything particular while making demo? …like listening to music, drinking
tea, coding in the darkness…
Working in the middle of the night? Well, not
that I want to, but I always ended up working at the dead of night. (LOL) I do drink coffee often, and some fizzy drinks
(zero-calories’s). To code well, caffeine is essential. And in the final fixing stage, I drink beers
to check my demo’s mood and adjust scenes. A bit of alcohol allows me to be
sensitive to the sync of music, and I can create better scenes which fit with
music. But I have to be careful because if I drink too much, I get sleepy :)
(Unfortunately I won’t be able to understand.. but here’s
one for readers who makes demo…) What program do you use to make demo? Do you
create your own tool?
The process of demo-making really depends on
the person. Some make it without using any 3D modeling software or their own
tool, and some can make it by hand coding.
Currently I’m using commercial 3D modeling
software called “MODO” for creating models and animation (left on the photo)
and my own tool for making scenes (right on the photo).
You’ve been to some demoparties in Europe. What was the
first demoparty you joined?
The first time I released my demo outside of
Japan was at demoparty called NVISION/NVScene held
in US in 2008. I didn’t physically join this party but by releasing the demo
remotely, I got comment from Gargaj saying like “you should join European
demoparties” and I decided to go visit Breakpoint (note: big demoparty held in Germany). So the very first demoparty
I joined was Breakpoint 2009.
"Life on Air" (2008) by SystemK
What was the European demoparty like? Personally I’m
bit intimidated to approach…
As far as I’d checked before joining it,
demoparty was often presented as “programming contest”. But what I learnt from
actually joining it was that it was close to an offline drinking party or a
festival. They do give seminars and such, but that’s not their main purpose. People
go there to see friends that they cannot see too often, and spend good time together.
Naturally, the demoparty holds some compos for
demo and your work will be shown in front of over 1000 people. And that includes
you, if you’re there. Once your demo is started to play, you can instantly know
whether your work is better or worse than others’ work.
Compo is not just about showing your demo on
the screen. Afterward, you’ll get many feedbacks *directly* from people who
watched your demo, such as “that part was good” or “that part should be
improved”. This is very rewarding moment for creators.
There are many people on YouTube or niconico
who keeps posting their work because they like to receive comments, and I can
understand why.
You’ve
been organizing Japan’s only demoparty “Tokyo Demo Fest” as a main organizer. Why
did you start demoparty in Japan? And will you tell us how did it happen?
In Japan, there was an online demoparty called
“2chparty” around 2001, and that event was also held from 2005 to 2009. I’ve
participated from 2005, but after I came back from Breakpoint in 2009, I
started to think like “Online demoparty is not enough!”
Around 2008, I remember Gargaj kept asking me
why we don’t organize actual demoparty in Japan :D, but at that time we were
not so sure about if it’s a good idea to throw offline demoparty; we were
having negative opinions like “we don’t even have much demos for offline party”
or
“people are living in all over the place, is
it worth to have demoparty in Kanto region (note: region which covers Tokyo and
some more) ?”
I actually had those opinions too, but then I
saw q was planning to have “Megademo study meeting” in 2011. Around that time,
people started to hold study meetings for programmers and gradually becoming a movement
and q was trying to hold one to go with the stream. So I suggested him saying
“why don’t we use this occasion to throw demoparty as well?” and we held seminar
style study meeting in the first half and demo compo in the latter half as a
social hour.
At first, we thought we could only attract 10
people or so, but as far as I remember, we had about 40 participants for that
party. Since we learnt that quite a lot of people are actually interested in,
we decided to do it again next year.
The first party was not that big, so it was
somewhat manageable by q and me. But when the party expanded to 100+
participants scale, we really need help from other demosceners that we’ve met
through Tokyo Demo Fest.
I’m sorry to ask you but,
what is “online demo party”? You chat with other participants while watching
demos?
At our online party, participants needed to make demo and upload it to the
website (party website) by the deadline. And after that deadline, visitors of the website downloaded each works and
voted. And the demo which got the most votes won.
Oh, okay. Now I get it :) You
said it started as “study meeting”, you hosted these events at meeting room?
TDF2011, the first year, was held at the
rental conference room with technical seminars + demo compo (as a social hour)
on the schedule.
Successfully, this event attracted more people
than we’d expected, and we needed even bigger space for next year. Luckily,
Zavie, who is a demoscener from France and one of the TDF organizers found a
good place, so we held TDF2013 at Institut français du Japon (Tokyo).
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(At TDF2013, photo provided by kioku)
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Actually it’s difficult to find a place in
Tokyo where we’re allowed to eat and drink (incl. alcohol), use electricity or
stay until late hours.
I went last year’s, and the
venue got various culture mixed in and it was nice. :) Tokyo Demo Fest 2014
will be held very soon (March) and it will mark the fourth time. As an
organizer, what’s your thought on this?
It requires so much effort to organize
demoparty, and we need help from many people. I’ve been hearing from European
demoparty organizers that it’s really tough but now I do understand that by
actually doing it. :) However, it’s nice to receive many feedbacks
like “TDF was fun”. It’s nice to get comments for my demos, but it’s slightly
different.
First, we need help from organizers. I greatly
appreciate our demosceners who kindly support this event as organizers. Without
their help, TDF wouldn’t happen.
By the way, I believe that the abilities to
organize demoparty and the abilities to create demos are completely irrelevant.
For example, in European demoparty, main organizers tend to be the people who
don’t release many demos.
The second is help from sponsors. Sponsors are
essential for current size of TDF. IMAGICA Digitalscape and Unity TechnologiesJapan offer much support for our event, and ASAHI net offers help for providing
and building TDF network environment.
And finally, we need help from demosceners. Even
though we managed to set up the place, a party cannot be called “demoparty”
without demos. The more people bring great demos, the more party gets exciting.
At the demoparty, demo attracts
demosceners. People who bring their work will be motivated
by others’ work and try to make something much better for the next time. And I think TDF should be such place, which is
a party by the demosceners and for the demosceners.
How’s the current demoscene
situation in Japan? Tech-wise, participants-wise, is there any difference from
European demoscene?
There are very few active demosceners in Japan
who participate European demoparties. But this is not because we have few
demosceners. I know there are quite a lot of people who know what demoscene is,
or people who used to create demo in the past. These people tend to have refined skills now,
and I think they can make fairly nice demos if they can find some time to do
so.
We hosted TDF for 3 years, and luckily this
party (and consequently demoscene) is gaining recognition among people who know
nothing about demoscene.
As for current tech trend in demoscene,
probably I should mention GLSL fragment shader. This technology is often used
in 4KB or 64KB and it allows us to make demos quite easily.
Will you introduce us
some of your favorite Japanese demos?
If I choose it from recent ones, it would be
last year’s TDF invitation demo “candy~tokyodemofest 2013 invitation~” (video). Actually, I’d been mulling over the idea of
making 64KB with Japanese anime-ish 2D animation for quite a long time. But
when I talked about this to q-san who was trying to make invitation demo, he
went like “Good idea! I’ll do it” and he did. :) Though I had this idea, I myself wasn’t sure
if I can turn this idea into demo when q-san was started to make his demo. But
q-san actually did it brilliantly and I thought he’s really great.
From the older ones, I would recommend
watching “minimal” by Radium software development. I learnt a lot from it
because this comes with source code. And for your information, creator of this demo
will speak at Tokyo Demo Fest 2014.
Ok, then next question… your favorite demo, memorable
demo, demo that changed your life… anything… tell us a demo which is special to
you.
That would be “Squish” (video) (64KB, Assembly2002) by
AND. I saw this when I was a university student and I was thunderstruck.
According to AND’s website, he and I are same
age. And when I discovered that fact, I was shocked to know that the person who
is the same age as me is able to create such a great demo. I was just beginning
to do 3D programming at that time, and I thought “if the same age guy can do
it, so can I” and started to create own demos. :) (But it took me about 3 years
to make similar 64KB demo..)
Now I’m doing a CG programming job, but I’m
not sure what I would have become if I hadn’t seen his demo at that time.
(Note for
students: When we look at it
from CG-related corporate engineers’ point of view, a person with deep
technical knowledge like demoscener is always welcomed. Those engineers can
tell if he/she has communication ability for collaboration and what level of
skills he/she has by checking his/her demo.)
Indeed
the efforts of person of the same age are especially inspiring :)
You
said you do CG programming job, and I assume you do a hell of a lot of coding
at work. Why do you write codes even after you get home? What is the fun part
of demo making?
Demo making process consists of 90% of pain
and 10% of joy. Honestly, it’s really grueling while you’re in its process, and
you’ll be tied up especially in the latter process. But that sense of
liberation I feel after I finish it is wonderful. 10% of joy is there because I feel I could
express myself by making it.
I think I felt more joy when I first started
to make demos because I had many techniques that I wanted to know and it was
kind of fun to explore those things. But after I learnt some of them, I
gradually came to understand what technique is used in others’ demo, thinking
“well, probably I could do that if I try”.
Other than demo making, organizing Tokyo Demo
Fest is quite a tough job. I know there are some other people who is able
to make demos, but not so many for organizing parties. So now I put more effort
into this.
Out of curiosity, what do you
like to do other than making demos or computer related thing?
Lately I’m riding a road bike. (You saw me riding in Gunma before :)) Sometimes
I go more than 200km. It’s really fun because I get do excursion and exercise
at the same time.
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(“Japan's highest peak of national highway” Photo provided by kioku)
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We
got fresh air from the nature and plenty of mountain passes somehow, so make
the most of it for your bike tour or development camp. :)
What type of demo do you
want to make in the future?
I have an idea that I’ve been wanting to try. I
already have music but probably I should keep it to myself until I release it. I
guess I’ll have some time to work on it after TDF2014.. or I’m not sure when…:)
I look forward to that :) Besides
your work, is there any dream or goal that you want to achieve in the
scene?
I hope Tokyo Demo Fest will be recognized
widely and known as “the party of great people”.
Do you have any specific idea for that?
TDF was started out from the simple motivation
of “I want to organize demoparty in Japan!” But now I hope to make this space
more supportive towards demosceners in Japan.
Considering these facts, now I get more
interested in the idea of introducing those great people to the world.
I think TDF should encourage the creative
cycle of “I do what I like and make what I like – People appreciate it, so I
make more”, provide the stage for demosceners to release their works and
support their activity.
Obviously, I wish you the
best of luck. :) Finally, your message for demosceners and demo fans out there please.
This is not just about demoscene, but when I
reached my 30s, I felt that time flies faster than before :) You will have more
things to do when you get older, so I recommend making demos in your 20s. :) But
this doesn’t mean that 30s or 40s can’t make one, so we middle-aged people
should make demos when we have time. :D
People may think that demos are made of very
complicated technologies, but in fact those basics are not so different from
general programming’s, CG’s or music’s.
I guess that’s all from me for now. “See you
next demoparty!”
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- In case you’re wondering what “demo” or “demoscene” is, better check out the well-made documentary called Moleman2. (and the director, M. Szilárd Matusik's interview can be read in here.)
kioku-san, thank you very
much for taking some time to answer these questions! (I know you were very busy
preparing for TDF and its invitation demo!) And thank you for bringing this
demoparty culture in Japan!
This year’s Tokyo Demo Fest
will be held for 3 days from March 21, 2014. If you’re interested in, go check
out this website now :)
On Japanese demoscene portal called “demoscene.jp”, JP sceners publish some useful information/document for fellow sceners.
Thank you very much for
reading! :)
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#1: Interview with Demoscener: q from nonoil/gorakubu is here.
#2: Interview with Demoscener: Gargaj from Conspiracy, Ümlaüt Design is here.
#3: Interview with Demoscener: Preacher from Brainstorm, Traction is here.
#4: Interview with Demoscener: Zavie from Ctrl-Alt-Test is here.
#5: Interview with Demoscener: Smash from Fairlight is here.
#5: Interview with Demoscener: Smash from Fairlight is here.
#6: Interview with Demoscener: Gloom from Excess, Dead Roman is here.
