Welcome to the Interview with Demosceners. This
time, we welcome Pixtur who is taking care of graphics and designs (and code) of
Still and LKCC!
In this interview, Pixtur talks about how
got into the demoscene, importance of having a “concept” and how he get the
inspiration and turns it into the demo.
And as you read on, maybe you’ll understand
why Pixtur’s demo looks quite detail-oriented… :) Happy reading! :)
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First of all, could you please introduce yourself briefly?
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photo by Pixtur
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My name is Thomas Mann. Although I share
this name with a famous German writer, I was the big disappointment of my
German-teacher. In the demoscene I use the nickname pixtur. I am a member of LKCC
and Still. And sometimes I collaborate with other groups like Bauknecht. I
guess the roles I’m most comfortable with are concept and editing. I have some
experience with 3d-modeling and composition, too.
You got interested in computers in early age? Do you remember how
it was like when you had first contact with a computer?
I grew up in East-Germany. Although the
communist lacked the resources to make computers available to the general
public, they clearly understood the importance of computer engineering. That’s
why computer science was a favorite topic in kids’ magazines. I got so hooked,
that I build a model of a computer out of cardboard and pretended to type on
it. I think I even made some screens out of paper that I could insert into the
display.
That is cute and creative :) How old were you at that time?
I don’t really know. Maybe 10?
Ok, but you did touched the real computer afterward, right? :)
The dad of a good friend of mine was an
engineer with access to a computer. He started to teach interested kids BASIC.
His computer was self-assembled, even the keyboard was made out of
elevator-buttons. There was no way to save your programs, so you had to write
them on paper, type them in and test them out. He was an incredible motivating
teacher. I think I was 12 by then.
Later I went through the whole computer
science for kids program. It was held at an after-school location. The
communists were anything but unstructured: before getting access to “real”
computers you had to complete a series of courses like programming
pocket-calculators in machine code. Over the next few years I spent all my free
time there and met some kids that were just as eager and are still close
friends today. We started a computer club – LKCC.
A few years later we got all pretty fluent
in BASIC, Pascal and Assembler. Although the teachers couldn’t answer most our
questions by then, they were very smart at motivating us.
Did you actually make something with those programming languages
you learnt there? Like games?
We started to program games and eventually
demos. But by then it was 1989 and the iron-curtain came down.
Can I ask what happened exactly? How did the iron-curtain affect your local
club?
The
story is actually kind of sad. The institution was called “Pionierhaus” which
translates into something like house of pioneers. And since everybody now hated
everything even remotely related to communism, this was a bad omen. The people
who ran the place were anything but socialists. They were just a super nice
bunch of nerdy teachers with no political agenda whatsoever. If anything they
were the seed for a sub-culture of hackers. Well, they had close down the house
within a year or two. Every time I hear a German politician complain about the
lack for young engineers still makes me angry.
At
least now we could afford “real" computers. We all got into gaming and spent
some years with Doom. Some of us did some hacking and cracking games. I also
wrote my fair share of BBS-intros and trainers. Eventually, we lost motivation
in that stuff altogether. But since now most of the members of the
computer-club studied at the same university, we turned LKCC into a volleyball
team and participated in the student-league for a couple of years. I think we
came in first once. Well, now I’m really drifting off, but you ask for it. :-)
Sure, I appreciate
these trivia more than you know :) That’s great to know that you drove the club
into another challenge :) But you guys all learned much about programming and you
decided to play games instead of making them? Somehow I find it quite odd.
At that time my friend and I had been developing
a Wolfenstein 3D-like game engine. It was more than 1 megabyte of
source-code – most of it highly optimized assembler code. And then came Doom. I
vividly remember the first time I saw it, because it shattered our dreams of
becoming game developers: It only need two functions in assembler (the rest was
C++), but it featured curved walls, stairs, and windows. And it was still
faster than our engine. This taught me the lesson, that a good algorithm always
beats optimization. And that premature optimization is bad. So we basically
stopped programming and started gaming.
That’s interesting… I
thought normally people decided to make games because they saw nice games… but
you did it other way around! :) Ok, so when and how did you discover demoscene?
And what motivated you to join?
During the university-time I was sharing an
apartment with two other guys. One was a member of LKCC and the other was a
fellow architecture student: Nero. He spent all of his free time working on
old-school demos (e.g. “The Fulcrum” [video] by Matrix).
I was always puzzled by his never-ending
motivation and didn’t really get why anybody would spent that much time on
making “demos”. It seemed crazy. But some years later Diver of Salva Mea asked
me if I could do some modeling for a demo-production. The concept looked kind
of nice, so I agreed. We finished and released at Evoke 2002 and made the 2nd
place (“Kassiopeia”). That weekend was one of the most rewarding experiences in
my life. And I am addicted ever since.
How was it like to create your first demo? Was it fun?
Working with the guys from Salva Mea was
super stressful. I guess I’m sort of a control freak when it comes to timing.
Nevertheless we released something and I learned a lot.
After that I did a small project with Mad,
who made a 3D engine and already had a nice soundtrack. Suddenly I was
responsible for all design aspects, so the fight shifted from discussing design
to begging the coder for more effects and control.
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Still @Revision photo by Pixtur
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Oh, ok… now I’m imagining several guys trying to grab the wheel… :)
By the way, you mentioned “architect student”. Architecture? Why did you went
in for architecture? By hearing your story, I believe you’ve been interested in
computers, so you could’ve just chose Computer Science field…
Some of the members of LKCC were a year
older and already started to study computer science. When I had time I would
join them. But most of the courses seem incredibly boring to me and the
CS-building was ugly as hell. Naively I thought that studying computer science
would be kind of boring. Since I was doing a lot of sketching somebody
suggested I could study architecture instead. So I applied and was somehow
surprised to get in.
The first two years were quite difficult.
Most of the students seem to be superficial arrogant artsy types. And the
professors preferred nice presented designs over “logically optimal solutions”
to a given problem.
Luckily I also started working as an intern
in startup that did super advanced computer visualization. They bought
SGI-computers worth several family homes and hired most of the members of our
old computer club LKCC to figure out how to use them. It was insane, and super
fun. Coincidently the CEO of the company was an architect. But he never did any
design work – all he did was talking to investors. So I had the luck to realize
that although architecture is fun, working as an architect is not. And no
longer trying to please the professors at the university I suddenly had a lot
of fun and surprisingly got a pretty good degree after all.
Ever since then I’m constantly jumping
across the fence between design and code. Although this kept me from getting
outstanding at the either of them it kept me busy.
Jumping between design and code… that sounds like a proper
demoscener to me :)
I
made the interesting observation that most people really do think in drawers:
I’m not as good in programming as the coders I love to work with, but I know a
thing or two about coding.
Really? Unfortunately I can’t tell if you are being honest or
modest… then what about in your actual paid-work? Do you do both code and
design? Or it’s code OR design?
During my freelancing time the jobs were evenly
distributed between programming and design. Nevertheless for all my clients I
was either “the coder” or “the designer”. They even got quite annoyed when I
dared in one role to comment on the other.
The nice thing about knowing a bit of both worlds is
that I might be better at discussing with developers. Sometimes driving them to
really good results, sometimes driving them nuts. :-)
Hahaha, Ok! :) Do you
find the thing you learned in the architecture field is useful in programming
and designs?
It
might not have been instructional for computer programming. But nowadays my
“profession” is more that of a user interaction designer. I believe that
architecture gave me a strong foundation in thinking problems through and
presenting them nicely. If you think about it, there are a lot of similarities
between designing a building and designing a GUI: There is an entry, there are
stairs, navigation, short-cuts, there are rooms and windows. They even call it
“screen real-estate”.
The other thing I learned at university was about
almost fanatically focusing on a concept. If you don’t have a concept all
design decisions are random and driven by taste and your gut-feeling. This
might work for some people. But having a concept makes it much easier to
discuss design in a team or with your clients.
So the concept is the pillar… That’s good to know… Ok, let me go
back to the demoscene topic. How do your projects start usually? Could you
explain your demo-making process?
I gave a long talk on that topic at NVscene
2015. Basically I start with a concept or an idea and let it ripe for some
time. We have a wiki with potential demos. I recently started to collect
references for every project on Pinterest. Eventually I start building research
scenes and approach musicians. By then I have a pretty good idea of what I want
to do.
I’ve checked your seminars, or I’d like to call Pixtur’s How to make
demo series :) It was very detailed and got many practical examples/advices
that I find it’s useful for non-demo project as well. But why do you reveal
this much technique? You could’ve kept all these secrets to yourself and just
bear away prizes!
Keeping
secrets is never a good long term plan. And most of the things are not secrets
to begin with. Like Newton put it: “We’re all standing on the shoulders of
giants.” It’s all bits and pieces borrowed all over the place. Giving talks
helps to really think the stuff through and understand it. If you can explain
it – you understood it.
Oh, Ok! Then where do you get your inspiration for your work?
This is hard to say. Sometimes it’s
basically “me too” - this was the case with “Square”. Sometimes I actually get
an original idea, for instance while listening to a soundtrack. I regularly
visit classical concerts with my mom. Whenever I’m listening to a big orchestra
I start drifting. Nowadays I pay attention and try to remember and write down
the images in my head.
What do you mean by “me too?”
More
like a cheap clone of something already invented. Everybody did this
raymarching stuff, and I decided to give it a try as well. I used a mandelbox
shader by Mad and played around with it. In my point of view the “problem” with
all the releases so far was the obsession with the 4KB limit. But with 4KB you
can’t use a proper soundtrack and sophisticated camera-animations (at least I
can’t). I think all the content in Square would have easily fit into 32KB, but
who cares…
Ok, thank you. I believe there are several stages in demo making
process like brainstorming, coding… Which stage of process do you like the
most?
I love the few precious days when the
exploration shows that I got something interesting. Before that it’s hell.
After that it’s polishing (which is also hell). I had a work-flash once while
working on “Perfect Love” [video]. I still don’t know how to get into that kind of
flow.
Your final work is always exactly the same as you imagined in your
head?
This is super rare. I almost did with
“Passing”. But most of the time it’s not even close. Sometime I’m still satisfied.
Sometimes I’m super disappointed. And quite frequently my degree of
satisfaction contradicts the feedback we get on Pouet (note: Demoscene portal site).
So, you can say “Passing"
is your (own) most favorite demo so far?
Interesting
conclusion, but you’re right on spot! Passing still is the best concept I came
up with: It’s a simple effect that looks kind of nice and can be transformed in
endless variations. I really like the idea that the camera is not moving in the
whole demo: the world is scrolling by. This endless loop matches nicely with
the images and desperation I hear in the Mad’s soundtrack. It’s like a
never-ending David Lynch nightmare made by endless repetition.
Nightmare… Ok… I got it… So, what program do you use to make demo?
Do you create your own tool?
I’m a control freak. I need to be able to
tweak parameters to nudge keyframes. Without a tool, I would drive coders
insane.
At Still we use a program called tooll.io. A personal dream of mine is
to build a tool that help other people to make demos. It’s a long way, but with
“Coronoid” [video] it worked out for the first time. Watching somebody using
your tool to be creative is even more satisfying than being creative yourself.
Could you show us where your demo is born? Do you set theme or atmosphere
of the demo, or write down your ideas on the notepad?
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“Our office…” photo by Pixtur
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Whenever I get the inkling that something
might turn into a concept, I try to investigate. Sometimes these are super
rough storyboard-scribbles. During the years I got a bit better at actually
writing a concept. I wrote two concepts for Smash and the guys from Mercury in
the hope of doing a collaboration, both on the train back from Breakpoint (note: Demoparty held in Germany).
Sometimes I do edit rough mood-sketches with Final Cut.
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“Some sketches I did for Intrinsic Gravitiy” photo by Pixtur
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Ooohh, so these sketches were turned into that demo! :) Thanks for
sharing! Then regardless of what project you’re working on, do you set your own
rule or goal? Is there anything you really care about when you make demo?
I try hard not to repeat myself. At Still
we’re jokingly referring to the list of forbidden ingredients: No cities, no
lens-flares, no white-flashes, no dust particles. It’s hard.
Right… the more you make, the more you get the forbidden items.. :)
Ok, time to shoot this classic question. Your favorite demo, memorable demo,
demo that changed your life… anything. Tell us a demo(s) which is special to
you.
Of course Future Crew was super
influential. But later I got into demos that build up an atmosphere that hinted
more than it explained. For a long time, my favorite demo was “Energia” [video]
by Sunflower, then “ASDF” [video] by Mel Funktion and Little Bitchard, and
finally “Numb Res” [video] by Fairlight. I guess I always had a special love
hate relationship to Fairlight.
Hehehe… okay :) I’ve read that now you have your own company to run
and I believe you must be leading busy life! But why do you spend your time to
make demo, which is non-lucrative. What makes you keep going?
I believe that the meaning of life is to
figure out what makes you happy. Maybe the communist propaganda of my childhood
had effect on me after all: gathering money and stuff doesn’t work for me. Of
all the things I tried so far working with friends on challenging creative
projects is the most effective method to keep me happy.
Although most of the time my work is fun,
the bar is set much higher for my personal projects. For me it’s much harder to
satisfy myself than to satisfy clients. So making demos as much as designing
tools to make demos is a never-ending source of problems to solve.
The way to be happy… So you’re constantly challenging yourself but
having fun doing it :) That’s nice, you get happier and better at the same time
! Then what is “good demo” and “good tool” to you?
I
don’t really know what a good demo is. I would be able to describe demos I like
right now and explain why, but that might totally change within a year. Also my
opinion is sometimes radically different from other people. The nice thing
about the demoscene is its diversity. Having a definition of a “good demo”
would not be a good thing. But if you seek advice: I once heard that to win a
major party you need tits, dragons, and cubes.
But
a good demo-tool is a different topic! If you want to make it a bit
user-friendly it becomes a super difficult design challenge. It would have to
be as flexible as a programming language, but still allow you do tweak stuff at
a minute level. It should drive your creativity without ever losing control. If
made right it should keep you in the flow for hours. Obviously our tool doesn’t
do that. Yet.
Hmm, sounds really challenging indeed… well, then what type of demo
do you want to make in the future?
One day I want to make a mega-demo like “Stargazer” [video] or “Agenda Circling Forth” [video]. Until then I’ll try to keep doing smaller pieces on
topics I’m not comfortable with. I want to do something with particles. But
first I have to figure out how to sort them. And eventually I want to bring our
demos into VR.
Very much looking forward to that :) And finally, your message for
demosceners and demo fans out there please.
To learn making better demos you have to
release demos.
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Thank you so much for answering all the
questions, Pixtur!
If you want to check Still and LKCC’s work,
be sure to check their website (click their name). And as he presented in the
interview, he has been giving several seminars around “Demo Making”. I find it’s
really practical and informative, so I highly recommend watching these series
if you’re trying to make demos.
“Concept, Camera, Composition and Color”
(Revision 2003)
“Rules of Thumb for (Slightly) Better Design” (Revision 2004)
And if you’re interested, his tool "tooll.io" can be
beta tested from here :)
Thank you very much for reading this till
end! :)
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- In case you’re wondering what “demo” or “demoscene” is, better check out the well-made documentary called Moleman2. (and the director, M. Szilárd Matusik's interview can be read in here.)
#1: Interview with Demoscener: q from nonoil/gorakubu is here.
#2: Interview with Demoscener: Gargaj from Conspiracy, Ümlaüt Design is here.
#3: Interview with Demoscener: Preacher from Brainstorm, Traction is here.
#4: Interview with Demoscener: Zavie from Ctrl-Alt-Test is here.
#5: Interview with Demoscener: Smash from Fairlight is here.
#5: Interview with Demoscener: Smash from Fairlight is here.
#6: Interview with Demoscener: Gloom from Excess, Dead Roman is here.
#7: Interview with Demoscener: kioku from System K is here.
#8: Interview with Demoscener: kb from Farbrausch is here.
#9: Interview with Demoscener: iq from RGBA is here.
#10: Interview with Demoscener: Navis from Andromeda Software Development is here.
- For some of my posts related to “demo and “demoscene” culture is here.
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